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Topic: McCarthy's Southern Works
Thread: ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd
 Total messages for all days: 95

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Ken 9/30/2006
(A) is for Air, (B) is for Buddhism, ... "Air" and "Buddhism" in The Road ... What more can you ask for in life!

(A) What makes any of the first five McCarthy novels an "element" novel is that (1) the element is dominant and frequently destructive, (2) the element is central to the many or the significant injuries to or deaths of or burials of characters, and (3) the novel begins and ends with the element. The Orchard Keeper is an "air" novel under these conditions, and so is The Road.

(1) TR: ash, ash, ash, gas mask, carbon fog, cough, cough, cough, mist of blood. What more needs to be said?

(2) Death by air, burial in open air: The father in TR parallels the father in TOK. In TOK, Rattner is choked to death by Sylder; in TR, the father (reasonably argued) chokes to death from years of breathing bad air. In TOK, Sylder dumps Rattner's dead body into an open-air grave, then Ownby places a piece of cedar over it; in TR, the father insists on dying in open air, then the son places a piece of plywood over where the father would die and remain.

(3) Now that the book is published, I could more freely quote the beginning and ending.

Beginning: "When he woke ... he'd reach out to touch the child sleeping beside him." (TR ARC 3) What the father is doing is not made clear until sentence four: "His hand rose and fell softly with each precious breath." (TR ARC 3) In other words, the father is feeling for the son's intake and expulsion of air to make sure the son is still alive.

Ending: "In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery." (TR ARC 239) Take the "hum" literally: it is a wave propagated in air; "hum" fills the air as would "dust", the last word of TOK.

(B) But I also take the "hum" figuratively, and I hear the Hindu "Aum" or the Buddhist "Om", particularly the final "m" sound. In Hinduism/Buddhism, Aum/Om is a mantra of utmost significance, an undefined ("mystery") "hum" that describes the universe ("all things"). In the Mandukya Upanishad, the three syllables of "Aum" represent the three states of consciousness: "a" for waking, "u" for dreaming, and "m" for sleeping. TR begins with waking/dreaming/sleeping, so there is a Hindu/Buddhist unity in the beginning and in the ending of TR. An alternate way to look at the beginning/ending is that TR's first verb is "woke" and its last verb "hummed" refers to sleep. (Aside: There is also a possible allusion of the "hum" to string theory, which posits that the universe is ultimately composed not of particulate matter but of vibrating strings and membranes, multidimensional "branes" in general.)

I read some of Lee McCarthy's poems from Desire's Door just before I read The Road. How biographical this collection of poems is I do not know, but I assume to some degree. In the poem "It's In the Cards" (22-23), McCarthy mentions "I Ching" and "Transcendental Meditation, EST". This passage made me chuckle because TM and est really date the mentality of the poem to circa 1971. The poem hints that both McCarthys were at least somewhat involved in the then New Age fads, which were inspired by Hinduism and Buddhism. I highly suspect McCarthy had better, more accurate, more direct sources for Hinduism and Buddhism (such as, perhaps, 1956-57 Suzuki and Watts books), though I have no evidence.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd jwm 9/30/2006
A first thought I have is that the ending of this book is the most literally hopeful in all of McCarthy with the rather ambiguous exception of the ending of "Suttree."

Spare, horrific and excruciating struggle end on an upbeat. Seasons.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd foolish1 10/1/2006
I would like to respectfully disagree that the ending of The Road is hopeful. Either the Boy is a manifestation of the Divine (more of Mr. McCarthy's brilliant Gnostic cosmology) or he is not. Either the Divine will bail the remnants of humanity depicted in TR out of its impending extinction or It will not - and one would have to ask, If the Divine was going to act, wouldn't It have done so before all the fish were dead and the world was suffocating beneath all that ash? The fact that humanity was allowed to reduce itself to the state depicted in TR - no God intervened - suggests that the Earth is as protected as any lifeless "nameless sisterworld". Which is to say, it isn't.

(**Spoiler follows**)

The travelers who adopt the Boy at the end, maybe they've extended his life for a little while, but what's to say that their struggle will end any differently than the Man's? They have numbers, they can make shotgun shells, but ultimately are they any better off? Quite possibly the Man in his (understandable) inability to "take the boy with him" has essentially doomed his son to continued torment. Quite possibly the Boy will end up as dinner for the cannibals.

Please forgive me for being a buzzkill. TR is brilliant, but hopeful? I don't believe so. At best, the Divine's relationship to humanity in TR is as the Whirlwind to Job - on a level that surpasses any meaningful human understanding, beyond anything we might consider compassion.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Clement 10/1/2006
Ken, the Lee McCarthy vignette is interesting. The scene in The Road where the Man's wife sits smoking a dried piece of grapevine like a cheroot sticks in my head. Upon first reading, the scene struck me as hippyish - oddly jarring in way - I remember thinking, there is something personal about this. The woman's 'defense' of her suicide has some of the most, if not the most, forceful words to come out of a woman character's mouth in his work. Critically speaking, I know this is a treacherous path to go down, but then again, I'm not a critic, academic or otherwise....

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Em Nosta 10/1/2006
Perhaps your definition and expectations of hope are too large.

Hope also exists in small ways, and is no less valuable for its size. Putting aside the non existent divine, which whenever evoked seems to be both deaf and selfish, and think instead of the father who has already passed on his genes to his son, (and good ones they are), and has brought his son to a meeting with people who will extend the boy's chances even further.

Therein lies the father's hope.

Possibly the boy will survive and outlive the ash, becoming the father of a reborn community, risen out of the ashes. Think Phoenix.

Therein lies mine.

Let us not abandon hope. We are genetically programmed to survive, not in the bodies we now inhabit but through our genes.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Clement 10/1/2006
Sorry, I couldn't resist this one Em, but 'programmed' by whom? Perhaps the need to seek, exhort, implore the non-existent divine is just another evolutionary adaptation. It may be that raging against that adaptation is just as futile as raging against the increase in cranial capacity that preceded the 'invention' of the non-existent deity(s). In the end though, you are right about hope. The boy believes he only has to put that gun to his head to join his father and mother, yet he doesn't. The father had believed that he would have to kill the boy then himself at some point, but he didn't. I can't imagine a more stirring exhibition of faith and hope, under the conditions inflicted upon these characters, than McCarthy has rendered.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Greg S. 10/1/2006
I see the end of The Road as hopeful with a touch of ambivalence. Compare that with the end of Blood Meridian, which I read as ambivalent with a touch of hope. The mere fact that the child in The Road is not added right away to the food stock of some commune but handed over to the care of an ersatz mother is about all that one can hope for in happy endings for a book with a setting like The Road. The hope, the victory, is that even in such a dark setting, the brighter, ethical part of the human spirit can survive. (Compare the family commune with the post hole diggers. Their work carries on.)

Maybe I've become so used to McCarthy's religious/allegorical imagery that it no longer impacts me, maybe the talk of God was so blatant this time, but in the end the religious moment in The Road was subsumed on my first read under the rubric: "what we do to survive and flourish. The stories we tell ourselves."

To me the central passage in the book was on page 110.

"He walked out in the gray light and stood and he saw for a brief moment the absolute truth of the world. The cold relentless circling of the intestate earth, Darkness implacable. The blind dogs of the sun in their running. The crushing black vacuum of the universe. And somewhere two hunted animals trembling like ground-foxes in their cover. Borrowed time and borrowed world and borrowed eyes with which to sorrow it."

Notice the capitalization of "Darkness". Notice the reference to the father and son as "animals". Any religious or allegorical reading of this book has to be passed through this passage. Frankly, I found The Road to be much less allegorical than Blood Meridian, for instance, or Outer Dark. Of what is the wasteland in The Road an allegory? It is the very thing itself. One can just as easily read The Road as viewing religion as one of the crutches we use to get past the perceived Darkness of the universe. Of course, the passage I quoted above leaves open the question: from whom or what are the eyes and time borrowed?

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Laurie Stewart 10/1/2006
Would a hopeful ending require evidence that the boy survived to adulthood, that humanity could somehow make a comeback? I think the fact that goodness and love survived right to the end, that Darkness did not overcome them, is in itself a kind of hope, or victory as Greg S. said. "Goodness will find the little boy." The faith is in goodness, not in an unending future but in a spirit that is eternal, outside of time. Not that humanity and the living world will exist forever, but that they existed at all, against all odds in the black vacuum of space. And when all is said and done, at its heart, the world was good and it was beautiful, a mystery and a miracle, all the more precious for its mortality, for its being "a thing which could not be put back."


ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd simonevans 10/2/2006
Just a thought - there is another nameless kid in McCarthy's ouevre. Any tie between the sore ass survivor of BM and that of TR?

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd mff8785 10/2/2006
Greg S.,

"The Darkness" void of any narrative or any other explanation left by common sense and experience? If we are mere "animals" than don't we look to Darwin or any other cosmological theorist from the world of science? Or do their "narratives" fall short as well? I see the Darkness of The Road much akin to the dramatic Darkness of Beckett's shorter and longer plays. Darkness signifying the metaphysical and epistemological abyss. Happy ending? Faith?

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd noname 10/2/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Laurie Stewart 10/3/2006
Thanks, noname. That line is one of my favorites -- such a poetic image, the sun as a grieving searching mother. It makes the loss of the earth larger somehow than just a human tragedy. Implying maybe something greater than just humanity is lost, and something greater is grieving.

I wonder what you (or anyone else here) make of this: "I think maybe they are watching, he said. They are watching for a thing that even death cannot undo and if they fail to find it they will turn away from us and they will not come back."

A thing that even death cannot undo -- that goodness and love and integrity, as I read it. But who are "they" who have not yet abandoned us?

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Greg S. 10/3/2006
Laurie, well put two posts up. Interesting comparison of two passages quoted, one where the "blind dogs of the sun" are running and the other with the sun as grieving mother.

That quote of yours above sounds almost polytheistic, as if the gods were watching from Olympus. Or could it be the more tribal concept of "ancestors"? What page was that quote on?

mff8785, not sure if you are disagreeing with me in your post. You certainly can see the Darkness as a metaphor for a spiritual abyss, but I think in McCarthy's books its first role is as darkness itself. The vacuum of the universe. The absolute truth in the face of which man is nothing, combined with the incredible luck of having been born into a physical but mortal paradise called earth, added to the mystery of a postulated indifferent God or gods who is/are unknowable. At that point man's reaction to the real darkness becomes relevant, and the spiritual abyss is what threatens man's sojourn here. Or thoughts along these lines. Just trying to pick up and expand on a riff from your thoughts.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Jack Kelly 10/3/2006
Laurie: I could be mistaken but there is a similar passage earlier in the novel where the man addresses his father or all fathers, and when I read the passage that you quoted from near the end I thought maybe he was addressing those entities again.

Or to expand it, perhaps the man is addressing all who have passed and might be watching us now.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd noname 10/3/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Laurie Stewart 10/3/2006
Thanks, Greg S.

There seem to be many ways to read it. A friend of mine said that he at first thought it referred simply to any other "good guys" out there who might be watching the man and boy from a distance, specifically those who appear at the end. I got the sense, though, the man is talking about other beings somehow, not angels necessarily, but unearthly spirits of some kind, almost like the spirits that watch the tragedy of The Ancient Mariner unfold, and seem to have some sort of stake in it.

Jack,
Thanks for mentioning that passage - p 163 of the ARC which would be a few pages later in the book, I think: "Do you think that your fathers are watching? That they weigh you in their ledgerbook? Against what? There is no book and your fathers are dead in the ground." Then just 12 pages later comes the quote I used above -- "I think maybe they are watching, he said..." almost like a response, a challenge to that other almost taunting voice, or his own doubts.


ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Laurie Stewart 10/3/2006
Noname: Back to the question of the ending, whether the boy's or humanity's future is hopeful --

"The fulfillment of life cannot be in its future. That future is always an end. We know that: we ought not to wonder that something perishes. We hurt when we forget that the point of life is not that it should last forever. Its overlooked wonder is that once it was -- there once was a man, there once was a raccoon. That is the miracle. That is the point... The fulfillment of time is not where we seek it in vain, in its endless future. It is where we find it, in its perennially present eternity... In the pained cherishing of that transient world, the human, a dweller between the embers and the stars, can raise it up to eternity. That is the task of humans. The moral sense of nature is that it can teach us to cherish time and to look to eternity within it." -- Erazim Kohak

"The pained cherishing of that transient world" sums up so well so much of The Road, for me.


ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Dave Cremean 10/3/2006
Nice, Laurie--you just gave me better words to sum up my own attitudes toward the book.

Dave (Blackhiller)

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd wolves1997 10/7/2006
Wow Everyone
Thanks for the great thread. At the end I was just was waiting for him to shot the boy or the boy would have to shot himself. I was hoping agianst hope that it would not happen even though we knew very early that the man was going to die.The teaching of killing oneself was very just very horrific to me. I really saw the ending as Hopeful. But I always get drawn back to BM and thinking im looking at the Judge standing there. Was the judge always evil. The Boys father did not trust anyone at the end even though the "Good guys" were watching. I never would have tought my children how to kill themslves. In this world the parent has to do it for him. The father and the son or The kid and the judge. I just don't know. What a book.

Bob

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd mark123 10/7/2006
Yes, the Judge was always evil. Jesus said about him "he sinneth from the beginning." Jesus also called him "the father of lies."

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Greg S. 10/7/2006
Totally off topic, but I did want to throw out Bertolt Brecht's Mother Courage as a source to look at for some of the imagery in The Road. That shopping cart the father and son pushed across America reminded me immediately of Mother Courage's wagon. The father in The Road is not as complicated a figure as Mother Courage, but the common themes of the ravages of war and the ultimate dignity of picking up the pieces and starting over sure stand out. Any takers?

(Now I know what's next on my (re)reading list!)

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd simonevans 10/7/2006
Regarding the Kohak quote (pronounced 'cok'?), it reminded me of a rather intense armchair conversation I once had with the bony fiend. Must have eaten something dodgy to spin me into this reverie, but anyhow, the skinny guy just stood there in an unforgiving kind of way with a twinkle in his void little eyesocket as he told me I will die. He paused then resumed. My wife will die, my children will die, their children will die.

That took a moment to absorb. I rallied with just such an idea as Kohak's - the fact that life ends invests it with all the more meaning, every mortgaged second to be cherished and loved. My chin thrust out in a spirited reproof! After a stillness in which a thousand lives expired, the hooded anorexic said measuredly: 'NICE IDEA'. Then folded his enamelled palm as if to signify the destiny of it. My chin drooped and I stared at the little red and white caps in my own palm as if they had been scales on my eyes.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Greg S. 10/7/2006
Burp.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Clement 10/7/2006
Of course, science and religion do agree on one thing...that the earth is a finite thing that will have an end. In end we come each with our own judgement. Does the world end any less if its from self-inflicted nuclear holocaust, or is there something inherently uplifting about stewarding the planet through to extinction level asteroid hit or the actual extinguishment of our sun. How you feel about that reveals something about how you feel about the wife's little bit of obsidian and man's drive to carry on with the boy. This is a hopeful novel, to the extent that that's possible.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd noname 10/7/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd jwm 10/7/2006
The last of the novel does operate as an epilogue of sorts. The William Kennedy review in the NYT highlights very well the notion that in this book, unlike the others and unlike the history of life on this planet, man is no longer the new kid on the block.

Before, when the trout were in the stream, and the forests lived and the sea was teeming with life, this earth is/was much about what we had inherited and were heir to.

In this book, we have destroyed all that (or it was destroyed by some force take your pick) and man is left to make out of it what can be made, what can be imagined. Maybe there is no future because there is no past. That's all gone. We are of a moment the only thing left, the oldest thing left, with few exceptions.

Imagining what that may mean now, as the father does, is a wonderful mystery. The son knows nothing of before and his father quit telling him about it. Living in the present time as the son does with only the words in this book and the implicitness of the relationship with his father. What a difficult thing to imagine. McCarthy is masterful. I don't know any other way to say it.

In an odd way, the ending of "The Road" reminds me of the epilogue to Blood Meridian....the fire is just about out, there are no sparks or flashes left in the earth itself.

It also makes me think of "Outer Dark" for reasons I have not figured out yet really. Has "Outer Dark" been discussed hereabouts in relation to "The Road?"


ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd noname 10/7/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Greg S. 10/8/2006
Scuzzi

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd mark123 10/8/2006
jim beam. i make internet posts like that when i'm drinking jim beam.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Clement 10/8/2006
Candi - I'm still scratching my head here trying to sort this out. Apparently I pissed you off...but I can't figure out why....

Oh well...I been married thirteen years so I'm used to that...

In any event I apologize if I've offended you - I surely don't equate you with the Wife in The Road


ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Thumpdaddy 10/8/2006
Candi,
Sometimes a story is just a story.................Don't dive into a shallow pond. Wow.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd farmerm 10/9/2006
I’ve been thinking – wrestling really – with the questions about hope and about whether the father is doing the right thing/the only thing/ the wrong thing in TR when he keeps on moving just to stay alive and lets others die – the thief he leaves to freeze and the old man the son wants to feed that gets cut off come to mind first. The thing I can’t shake is that the son wants to do more for others and wants to join up with others. It’s hard to see the father as doing the wrong things – but even though I want to, I can't say that he's always doing the “right” things, not in some objective way but in the sense that he's not practicing the values that he seems to have taught his son. And obviously he can’t. To do so is to fall out of existence. We can’t criticize the guy for the “best” kind of survival possible. But that doesn’t negate the fact that he doesn’t stick with his values. He lets other “good guys” die, and we can’t fall into a trap (that isn’t surprising since this is McCarthy) of thinking that he is on a team that is good against another team that is evil (despite rhetoric to the contrary). He is not the great defender of love and charity and whatever else. He is on his own team. His thoughts are with himself and with his son – his lineage – and maybe with his father, too.

I got to thinking about whether we’re just viewing the father as choosing the “good” thing because he’s the one who’s framed for us. I got to thinking about any relationships that seemed to match, and the thing that surfaced in my mind was of Duena Alfonsa explaining to John Grady Cole that greed, foolishness, and a love of blood are things that we’re all powerless to change. Has anyone else been wondering about that one? When I read ATPH I always struggle with the conflict between hating her for getting JGC into trouble/”being evil” and seeing where she’s coming from. There the do anything for the love of blood is either evil or the only (reasonable?) thing; here it’s either good or the only reasonable thing. With that in mind, I’m leaning toward the only thing. (Maybe this relationship isn’t one that we’re seeing for the first time though. I wonder when it’s in effect and when it isn’t).

I get a sense – and I need to find time to reread this thing and grapple with it from the start because I was too sickened (or at least simulteneously enchanted and repelled) by the setting to really take it in -- but my sense was that this was the only thing. I thought of Camus a couple times (maybe I’d been primed for that by Sunset Limited). I would not do myself in. And so there is an echo of they rode on. Over and over, what is it? They went on? And they went on because that was what they did. It was what they did because it was the only thing they knew that was still an option. It was more safe than anything else, even if it wasn’t the best thing. Why would they do anything else? They went on, and this (and the whole book, really) didn’t feel like a moral stance so much as a brilliant statement of some ontological bedrock. (I feel like a bad reviewer – sorry. Just trying to sort out my thoughts, and I like the idea of doing it in the commons).

What I mean is that as a reader, I hated the thing. I wanted to put it down because reading it felt terrible. And I think that’s true for a couple of reasons. One is that I could see myself there, and obviously I didn’t want to. Worse, I could see that, potentially, this life prefigures that one. Like that we’re already in it. Luckily on a hugely different plane. And the interesting thing is that (possibly true to form), I didn’t put it down. I kept hoping for the end and thinking that I couldn't take much more. But I never thought of not following it through to the end. Is that experience the one that other people had?

It’s interesting – the hanging on waiting for some end and hoping for some delivery of some kind of meaning or of some kind of hope or of… just something. (Beckett is just off-stage, I guess). By the end I was willing to cling not even to hope but to an allusion of the possibility of hope.

This work may have been the most unreal as far as context goes, but in process, it was, perhaps, a little too real. Not a little too real to be brilliant, but a little too real for me to be at ease. I don’t think it could not be jarring. I thought it was incredible, but I can’t conceive of deciding that I like it. More Threads than The Day After, even. But I didn’t manage to watch all of Threads. I also feel more disease (perhaps for better and not worse?) over today’s NYT headline than I normally would. This thing has some performative value.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd blackhiller 10/9/2006
Mer,

A big part of what you're saying is that from your perspective, those who read the entire novel are in a fictive, vicarious sense are doing what the father and son do, that the novel in this sense results in a mirroring of the "message." A very interesting idear. . . .

Dave

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd noname 10/9/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd mff8785 10/9/2006
I have been reluctant to chime in on this novel. I don't know- upon my rereading I was struck by the sublime awe of the poetry of the idiom used by McCarthy; and unlike many of you on the message board, not so much lured into a "right or wrong" moral scenario. I have not read a contemporary writer with such original, odd, and aesthitically pleasing poetry since...? Hell, its been a while. It seems as if McCarthy is divesting us of our socially constructed modern/postmodern/posthuman armitures and is putting us on display, presenting us as the wingless bi-peds that we are(like Beckett or as Shakepeare does to King Lear). How could a "well-centered" (human?)not be nauseated at the hubris of our(Superpower) political, corporate, and soccer mom safety shields that we've been relishing? McCarthy is remooving us from our pretentious religious, moral, political, and material cloak(metaphysical and epistemlogical) that modern/postmodern/posthumans have hidden under, like a salamander under a rock. Traveling with our two protagonists on the road evokes living in a shack in the Congo or venturing the wild sea on Pequod with an insane seacaptain. We are weak creatures who desire survival- how far will we seek our own survival? and at what cost?. Easily, I went back to Carlyle's
"Sartor Resartus" and "Moby Dick" upon the completion of my second reading of "The Road." Morals? Politics? Future? The world of "The Road" forces its protagonists and reader to, excuse the hippy phrase, BE HERE NOW!

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd bruce serafin 10/9/2006
FarmerM:

I was wondering if I was the only only one who who felt so repelled and saddened by The Road. Very hard to describe the experience. I had a real hard time finishing the book. Partly I've been quite sick, which no doubt coloured my reading, but even so I felt from page to page a nearly indescribabable oppressiveness.

The last time I felt something like like this was when I read the Marquis de Sade; and to some extent when I read Ariel by Sylvia Plath. A sense that for all the brilliance of the writing, sadness and an arctic isolation were the all and only theme.

Orwell wrote somewhere about an apocalyptic literature that falsifies reality. And I remember when I was a student reading (in cribs) German sorrow plays from about 500 or 600 years ago whose entire purpose was to oppress the reader and make him or her feel the paralyzing, frightful, inexorable, grinding, down-ward shutting movement of the wheel of fortune.

I feel there is something false about The Road. It starts with the denial of the fact that humans are gregarious more than they are anything else. (I.e. the net.) The good guys wouldn't hide. The scene with the boy's mother is astonishingly weak, I thought, and points to the great central flaw in the book.

McCarthy had always been tempted by isolates. But until now I have been exhilarated by his books. This one made me resist it.

A moot point: is the resistance emotional or aesthetic?

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd jack kelly 10/9/2006
Bruce: First, sorry that you haven't been feeling well. Better days ahead, I hope.

As for your comments about The Road, I beg to disagree. I don't think there is a false word in the entire novel.

As for whether or not the good guys would make themselves more visible, I'm not sure. The fact remains that apart from the nuclear holocaust in Japan, humanity really hasn't been tested. Others can speak better as to how they fared in those incinerated Japanese cities, but I know one thing. As I stated on this board in another thread, we bounced back well after Pearl Harbor and 9/11, but those were minor scrapes compared to the type that seems to have occurred in The Road.

We just don't know whether good would triumph. But now that North Korea is testing Nukes, we could be closer to one day finding out.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd noname 10/9/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Em Nosta 10/9/2006
Hmm, Jack,
The relatively localized nuclear holocaust in Japan, certainly for the Japanese. The much larger holocaust in Europe for the Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and mentally ill, a huge test. The destruction of much of Europe and some of Russia by bombs and the devestation of WW2, (and WW1) both huge tests. The seige of Leningrad, another. The recovery from Pearl Harbour and even 9/11 are small, local disruptions by comparison, important to the U.S. because they were both attacks on American soil, a rare occurrence due to geography. Those who survived the fire bombing of Dresden would not be much impressed. And as we know these are only a few of the huge tests that other nations have endured from war and famine and disease and natural disasters, where the dead numbered in the millions, not thousands. The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse have not visited this continent yet.

If you mean that North Americans have never been tested in such extremes, I would certainly agree that we don't know how we will react and behave, and who or what will triumph.

I've been thinking a great deal about that question, formed in my own mind as, "What would I be? What would such a test make of me? What survival instincts do I have that would help me in such a world? Would I be a mad Ely, starving on the Road; a shackled, shuffling prisoner or a vicious killer? Would I become a cannibal, a killer of the weak, or perhaps a terrified hulk fleeing all human contact? Would I be able to muster the strength, physical and mental, to make a trek to a destination that may no longer exist in the hope of saving someone I loved?"

On this continent we have been sheltered and privileged and untested, yet North Koreans starve while a madman plays with nuclear toys

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd myssouri 10/9/2006
I would only respectfully add that, with the exception of Hiroshima/Nagasaki, the events you list to contrast 9/11 and Pearl Harbor were drawn out over periods of weeks, months or years.
That is, they weren't sudden, cataclysmic events but wars.
And thinking back to the relatively short period of 100 days in Rwanda, how even in 1994 information spread at something like half the pace it does now (comparative to time and scale of the Jewish holocaust--the majority of the folks who thought/talked about these events did so after they were committed) 9/11 is a landmark event for so much of the world watching it at once, gasping, oh!-fuck!ing, wincing, grieving, and some, sadly, celebrating.
And I believe that the rapid distribution/reception of such information will affect all warfare to come, particularly when moneyshot catastrophe occurs. Like a raindrop on a red anthill. War really is the ultimate game, now that we can practically watch it play-by-play on television and the internet. At least those cozy and comfortable among us. Probably all be driven out of our lairs one day. Also I think it will affect/is affecting the behavior of the war-makers! Being able to see how they're perceived. Blogged to death. Perhaps. Perhaps not.
Possible test of how (many) Americans would act in the face of calamity: Hurricane Katrina.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd myssouri 10/9/2006
PS: here's a link to a song I did about the open road, all the way back in 1999. Hard to believe so long ago now.
Lyrically, I think it's sympatico with the book.
Hope you like it. Sure some of you won't. That's alright.

http://www.myssouri.com/myssouri open road.mp3

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Em Nosta 10/9/2006
Good points, Myss.

I would add that for the long periods of time during the events I mentioned every day was a cataclysmic event, with little or no let up for years. That would really test people and I think strengthens my point that we in North America have not really been tried. I don't mean to diminish the events of 9/11 because they were brief, only to say that had the attacks continued for a long period of time we could, as the late Queen of England said when Buckingham Palace was bombed, "..at last look the East End in the face."

A brief aside,- like the murder of Jews in Europe, the murders in Rwanda were noted and ignored, by the governments of our countries. The Canadian soldier, Romeo Dallaire,was a vocal and early and on site pleader for attention to the attrocities and was a prophet without honour in his own land.

It makes me wonder how the rest of the world would have reacted had all the events of WW2 been broadcast into our living rooms in living colour with sound and on the spot interviews. As you point out our reaction to 9/11, the immediacy of it all acted out as we watched, helpless, changed us forever. The world's tinpot dictators and tyrants revel in the spotlight the media puts on their exploits and may be encouraged by coverage.

Katrina did tell us a lot about possible reactions, not much of it very encouraging.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd michaelb1 10/9/2006
I just finished the book. read it in one day.
I can't even talk about it yet. I am 33yr old father of 3 and have been reading constantly since I was 13.

No book has ever made me feel like this.

Unbelievable.
MB1

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Joshua Brewer 10/10/2006
Does Cormac have some sort of deal with North Korea? When I read On the Beach in High School in the early 90s, nothing could be less scary than the thought of nuclear apocalypse. Now, well, now it just makes sense to write about it, read about it, and fear it. McCarthy owes Kim Jong-il a fat check.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd RicksSon 10/10/2006
I am completely floored by this novel! As I was reading it I actually felt cold and gray - that's as fine a point as I can place on how it made me feel. As stark and raving mad as the progression of the novel got there was always a sense of great warmth simply in the fact that they were "each the other's world entire."

Recently being the father of a boy myself I could relate to "the man" in that he'd do everything to protect this boy of his. I love the contrast of having the father questioning his own existence in the process, the purpose of even existing in a non-world. The flashback to his wife's departure, despite the child, was chilling and left me feeling quite raw and vulnerable inside. The concept that this little boy was born into a world of chaos is a concern that I carry every day of my life. The unflinching mode of protection exhibited by the man toward his son regardless of the boy's wishes was both warming and shrill. I truly felt as though I were travelling the road with them watching them from afar.

I could go on and on... but I'm not done absorbing the tale in an emotional sense yet. The novel has so much depth and truth to it and the fact that beauty could even linger as an after thought in a world in such a state was truly remarkable. There's an overwhelming sense of love in the novel and that really turned out to be the answer to an important concept. The concept was, I believe, mentioned by old Ely; everyone who's alive wishes they were dead and yet cannot take their own lives - something to that effect.

In my life one of the most disappointing things has been people telling me that there's light at the end of the tunnel. In the same breath exists an almost hostile unwillingness to acknowledge that there's a long dark tunnel leading up to that light. Things so honest and basic in nature as that shouldn't ever be ignored and I tend to think it has spiralled out of control in our society. I found it extremely endearing that McCarthy not only acknowledged it in this book but that he brought the environmental condition to th extreme where you can't not acknowledge it.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Greg S. 10/10/2006
Ruder forms survive.

Some really interesting thoughts up above.

One has to assume that, even if there were lots of survivors around the world, none were left with an intact civilization anywhere near the pre-catastrophe level. Otherwise, years aftewards, there would have been signs of developed life interacting with the survivors. I don't think anything in human history really compares to the disaster CMC describes. Even the Thirty Years' War left roughly 50% of the population in the affected areas alive. No, this is more along the lines of the great historical catastrophes that led to the extiction of the dinosaurs and untold numbers of species of plants and animals. It has happened before and it may happen again, may even be manmade, before time runs out for the planet.

Clement, your post of 10/7 is well taken and has had me thinking. "Hopeful" may not even be the right word to describe the ending. There is simply an energy, a sense of carrying on, at the end of both Blood Meridian and The Road that gives the reader a certain level of comfort after all of the upheaval. McCarthy fills our little worlds with mud right up to our noses and then holds out a straw to us so that we can keep on breathing. It ain't much, but the air is clear. And he does a wonderful job of describing the mud, too. I can almost smell it.

As for the father's going it alone, I think that McCarthy anticipated this criticism by including a hint that before the catastrophe the father appears to have been a very gregarious person (had lots of friends). Nevertheless, we see him making compromises along the way and then having to explain them to the boy, leaving room for a critique of his code.

Bruce, you are not the only one who was less than enthralled by The Road. I found it more compelling than NCFOM, but, compared to my favorites Suttree, The Crossing, Blood Meridian, the book somehow fell flat. I'll have to give it a second read to see whether I caught it at a bad time. As you point out, the reader brings a lot to the table that influences how he reacts to a work of art.

Stylistically, The Road is a continuation of the crystalline prose that became particularly evident in Cities of the Plain, although always part of McCarthy's work and pretty well-developed in ATPH. It is so crystalline that the rare change to a “biblical” cadence, or the inclusion of an obscure word, rings harshly in my ears. (Don't get me wrong, I really like some of his "fluffier" passages in the other books, but I also have gotten quite used to his simpler style.)

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Richard L. 10/10/2006
The first reading of THE ROAD stuck with me long after I read it. I just now read it entire for the second time, and I see even more in it than before. I catch the nuances better now. It is indeed a masterpiece.

It doesn't repudiate the darkness of his early novels, it illuminates that darkness. But of course I say that having read all or nearly all of the crit-lit on McCarthy, capped off by Jay Ellis's eye-opening NO PLACE FOR HOME.

The mother at the end of THE ROAD is mother nature (or an earth mother, you might say), and his father is the Breath of God passed down, the holy spirit within all. A humanist, universalist reading.

As the storyteller in the epilogue to CITIES OF THE PLAIN says:

"Every man's death is a standing in for every other. And since death comes to all there is no way to abate the fear of it except to love that man who stands for us. We are not waiting for his history to be written. He passed here long ago. That man who is all men and who stands in the dock for us until our own time comes and we must stand for him. Do you love him, that man?"

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Em Nosta 10/10/2006
Couldn't help noticing the omission of 1/2 the population, the women. And is that also a reference to Christ, his sacrifice on the cross, standing in the dock? How humanist or universal can that be? Not at all.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Richard L. 10/10/2006
Em Nostra,

I don't think it is a reference to Christ, specifically, except as a symbol for everyman, to every father, and his father, and his father, on back to origins that predate epoch history and go into mystery.

If you only look at the surface of his novels, McCarthy does not treat women well at all (see Nell Sullivan's essay on this, but also see Jay Ellis's more recent and enlarged interpretation in NO PLACE FOR HOME).

My own take is, women are included in Mankind. Men and women were originally joined, per the Greek mythology, and as such in NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN, the women are extensions of their husbands and vice versa. The Greeks said originally man and women were joined, but because they were uppity and acting like gods, Zeus decided to cut them in half. Hence forward each half goes looking for its true opposite, its soul mate, the way Carla Jean knew Moss when she first saw him. Moss is the welder and love is the mindmeld.

Since this is an allegory, I take it for what it is, and I like it.

Note* - the classic reference to this is Plato's Symposium:

"To understand the power of Love, we must understand that our original human nature was not like it is now, but different. Human beings each had two sets of arms, two sets of legs, and two faces looking in opposite directions. There were three sexes then: one comprised of two men called the children of the Sun, one made of two women called the children of the Earth, and a third made of a man and a woman, called the children of the Moon. Due to the power and might of these original humans, the Gods began to fear that their reign might be threatened. They sought for a way to end the humans’ insolence without destroying them.

It was at this point that Zeus divided the humans in half. After the division the two parts of each desiring their other half, came together, and throwing their arms about one another, entwined in mutual embraces, longing to grow into one. So ancient is the desire of one another which is implanted in us, reuniting our original nature, making one of two, and healing the state of humankind.

Each of us when separated, having one side only, is but the indenture of a person, and we are always looking for our other half. Those whose original nature lies with the children of the Sun are men who are drawn to other men, those from the children of the Earth are women who love other women, and those from the children of the Moon are men and women drawn to one another. And when one of us meets our other half, we are lost in an amazement of love and friendship and intimacy, and would not be out of the other’s sight even for a moment. We pass our whole lives together, desiring that we should be welded into one, to spend our lives as one person instead of two, and so that after our death there will be one departed soul instead of two; this is the very expression of our ancient need. And the reason is that human nature was originally one and we were a whole, and the desire and pursuit of the whole is called Love."

Which is why Carla Jean is so connected to Moss in the Carl Jung sense. Which is why she knew Moss was her soulmate when they first met.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd noname 10/10/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Em Nosta 10/10/2006
Thank you for sharing that allegory. I am pleased to have read it - the new learning one gets from others on this forum is always a bonus.

I'll share too, "The Seven Daughters of Eve", by Bryan Sykes, professor of genetics at the Institute of Molecular Medicine at Oxford University. In the Prologue he writes,

"Our DNA does not fade like an ancient parchment; it does not rust in the ground like the sword of a warrior long dead. It is not eroded by wind or rain, nor reduced to ruin by fire and earthquake. It is the traveller from an antique land who lives within us all. ...the history of our species, homo sapiens, is recorded in the genes that trace our ancestry back into the deep past. These genes tell a story which begins over a hunded thousand years ago and whose latest chapters are hidden within the cells of every one of us.

I have found DNA in skeltons thousands of years old and seen exactly the same genes in my own friends. And I have discovered that, to my astonishment, we are all connected through our mothers to only a handful of women living tens of thousands of years ago."

He is writing of mitochondrial DNA. I think that Genesis notwithstanding, and the myth of the rib being just that, women are not included in mankind, they are included in Homo Sapiens. And they struggled mightily to be recognized as persons, only achieved in the mid 20th century, so few of them would want to regress to the mankind category - even humankind would likely be more acceptable.

I haven't read Sullivan or Ellis yet and I do want to. I have asked to have a copy of Ellis loaned from the University I attended, and will look for the Sullivan. No matter how badly McCarthy writes his women, or how flat they are in his books, I take heart at the knowledge that he hangs out with the scientists and must know more than he writes.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd odsbodikins 10/11/2006
there's a chance he's an ironist. Might it be that part of american history is that we overvalue male virtues over female ones. We would rather win than love. But love is the first and the last. And it requires the exercise of free choice, which is the ultimate mystrery. Suzerains do all that they can to limit the possibility of free choice. No mystery. Etc.

Wallach: i've been awaiting your nontrivial posts for the past five years. Cough it up you damn dirty jewbag.

mikeb4




ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd old dan 10/11/2006
Anyone but me puzzled by the depth and constancy of the boy's compassion considering the implied context of his young life?

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd jwm 10/11/2006
That is an excellent topic/question. I'm less "puzzled" by it than I am finding myself wondering about it. Not just its "depth and constancy" but its source.

The way in which his father instills values in him and the way there may be an implied value to them being within him and in reaction to what he experiences, without instruction, is one of the things which will be on my mind when I reread.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd noname 10/11/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Brian 10/11/2006
I'm reminded here of a question that I took from Arthur C. Clarke's 2001 series. Will the same instinct that allowed us to survive in the harsh environment 100,000 years ago someday be our demise? In other words, that instinct to band together and horde resources that allowed us to evolve and succeed as a species early on, does that live in us today as nationalism, racism, greed and so forth that will eventually lead to us killing each other?

I think kids are a priori free of these prejudices and have a more idealistic sense of right and wrong.

It's clearly important that so many of these moral dilemmas are raised along the way in the novel. Maybe it's important that the father dies (symbolizing the generation that fucked up) while the child is still young? And that the race gets a fresh start based on the values of the boy.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd noname 10/11/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd old dan 10/11/2006
It just seems strange that, in my estimation, the boy would have not likely reached the point of the end of the story without the help of a more pragmatic guardian, who obviously loved him boundlessly, we are left to consider his future in the world described so admirably br Mr. McCarthy.This may be the bleakest of all his portraits.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd robj 10/11/2006
Howdy,

I'm a long-time McCarthy reader, occasional lurker here and first-time poster.

I appreciate all the insights so far into The Road, which I read in a sitting yesterday. Strange that it coincided with the fallout, if you'll pardon the pun, from North Korea's nuclear weapons test. All the more harrowing.

I would rank the book just below Blood Meridian on my list of McCarthy's best, but I haven't yet read No Country for Old Men or Cities of the Plain so after I do I may revise that.

I don't think anyone here has mentioned the father's first dream in TR... the one about the boy leading him through the cavernous place, where they arrive at a black lake and see the sightless, translucent creature that sniffs the air toward them and wanders off.

For me it called to mind the creature from Yeats' 'Second Coming' with its eyes 'blank and pitiless as the sun...'
that, of course, 'slouches toward Bethlehem...'

Did that resonate with anyone else, or is it a stretch?

Any shades of the boy being the Second Coming?

It's interesting the son is leading the father in this dream. And they're traveling through what is described as what could possibly be the bowels of some great beast... which calls to mind Jonah and the whale.

rjj

p.s., It's interesting, in the Vanity Fair interview from August 2005, McCarthy calls his son John (the subject of the book's dedication) 'the best person I know, far better than I am.'



ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd John_Vanderheide 10/11/2006
noname,

I don't think it's tenable to make such a strict break between the old "corrupt" world of the man and the new ("uncorrupt"?) world of the boy. It is the same world, just crappier, with less possible futures, and less kind, less gentle, less metaphorical cannibals. "All history present in that visage"--this holds as true for the boy as it did for the kid. Anyway, if the boy is such a tabula rasa, how do you explain his "womanly" longing for death, which the father has to combat in him as he has to combat the memory of his wife's fatal resignation? It seems to me the boy is already "fallen" and has (and will continue having) at least as difficult a time carrying the fire as the man did.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd noname 10/11/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd robj 10/11/2006
noname,

Thanks... I thought I had carefully read the first 5 threads but it looks like I missed some posts.

-rjj

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd old dan 10/11/2006
For noname,
At the point in time of the end of the story, we have a boy who only barely arrived there with, what I'm sure you'll admit is, an inordinate amount of good will for his fellows considering their antics of late. I fear this very attribute renders him one of the most likely victims going forward. The "light" he carries is, in my view is, if not THE, at least one of THE subtle protagonists in this tale. I fear for the vessel we are left with.
His father said he believed he would be lucky.....being an amateur gambler myself....I don't like his odds.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd farmerm 10/11/2006
Bruce,
I’m with you – there’s something about The Road – and I haven’t been able to put my finger on it – that hasn’t seemed right to me, and I knew it was keeping me from having the feeling I usually get from McCarthy. I was figuring that was my fault and blaming my Modernist impulses, thinking maybe I shouldn’t be reaching out looking for “something” (reaching my arms out farther until one fine morning…), but I think you nailed it in saying that the good guys wouldn’t hide and that humans just do network more. I see people’s points that there having trust issues with humans you don’t know is understandable when other humans blew up/used up/one way or another destroyed the world. But still. I wish I knew how long they’d been walking and what happened between the flashes of light and the mother dying. Also, someone here said there was a line that said the father was gregarious before. I’ll have to look for that next time through. As to the mother – the thing that really got me was the picture left in the road. I can’t even find words for that. Disappointing and unnecessary.


No name,
Thanks for the “do as I say not as I do.” It's a fit. I'm not quite sure what you want to do with the discourse theory of the universe though. First thing coming to my mind is things in the world being “God’s words” in BM (specifically rocks? Stones? It must be time for a reread). I hear I’ll get more on the father in Jay’s book, which I think I finally will have a chance to read from this weekend. But what am I missing with this discourse theory? Also, when you see the man as part of the old corrupt world, are you seeing the boy as part of a new world? I guess that works with you seeing the child as a blank slate. But for some reason his state seems (and this is only an impression; i haven't had a chance to go back through the text)to be more related to the fact that he is a child than to his particular time period.


Dave,
With mirroring of the “message,” I’m with you, I think, if by putting “message” in quotes you’re seeing the process of their inability to quit as the "message"? On one hand, my experience isn’t even comparable to theirs, but… I also know that I I haven’t had such an emotional response to a work in a long time, and I’ve probably never had such a visceral response to a work. I felt like I was experiencing a shadow of the experience, or something like that, because I couldn’t even begin to imagine things. But just starting to was so terrible. I also had a really different kind of detachment and disengagement, in that I kept finding “myself” checking in on “myself” to make sure that I was doing ok (I wonder if I feel like kierkegaard right now -- my self relating itself to itself, not the negative unity but in the relation, etc). I really did ask myself whether I wanted to keep going a number of times. It did not take me many pages to decide that I hated the book (which is not to say that I didn’t respect it quite a bit – just that I had serious evaluative dissonance, I guess), so why didn’t I stop reading it? I was pretty sure that McCarthy wasn’t going to give me much at the end. I was actually pretty certain that the father would die and that we would end with the son standing, alone, on the empty road with some kind of cryptic statement. The family makes perfect sense and didn’t surprise me, but the last paragraph – even that was more than I would have dared to hope for. I don’t mean to get all reader-response on us here, but McCarthy has a nice track record of intelligent ways of beating up on particular audiences who bring particular biases to his work. And he’s too smart to not know that this was going to be, hope or no hope, tough on any reader. The way that it just drags sometimes while I waited and waited -- that was so real and so terrifying.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd simonevans 11/5/2006
Well, just received and polished off The Sunset Limited. What a surprise to see White plagiarising my mortal epiphany [compare this with my 10/7 post above]:

'Every Road ends in deeath. Or worse. Every friendship. Every love......For you and for everything that you have chosen to care for' (p137, Vintage)

White has had the 'scales fall fall from his eyes' (supra) - clearly those molasses are in fact agarics:

'My own reasons centre around a gradual loss of make-believe...A gradual enlightenment as to the nature of reality' [p120]

As Eliot wrote, mankind cannot suffer too much reality.

As an extended dramatic spin on my cosy loved up chat with the big bony guy, I found this taut little number rewarding, if insubstantial. A kind of single slug or frisson of pleasure, then book closed. Not his metier, not his metier.

Still hear that thin sumbuck's voice you know. Clear as a bulldrum in the camps of war.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd wesmorgan 11/14/2006
A very nice review/essay titled, "Love and Death in Cormac McCarthy's The Road" has just recently been posted by Robert Gentry. Bob is a frequent participant on this FORUM.

A number of other FORUM participants also have material posted on the interesting Writecorner Press website, and it is definitely worth checking out.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd jeffr 11/14/2006
wes

fantastic. thanks for this.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd John Riley 11/14/2006
Amen, Wes! A great tip. Gentry's review of NCFOM on the same site also worth reading. Thanks for the heads-up.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Bob G. 11/17/2006
Many thanks, Wes, jeffr, and John R.

Best,

Bob G. (aka Old Fart)

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Bob G. 11/18/2006
Hi, Candy! Many thanks for your kind words.

Been awfully busy with our e-press and trying to play Chuck Dickens in "A Christmas Carol in Prose," about the silliest thing this side of the planet. But the director doesn't quite know that yet. I may soon be fired by him for ad-libbing too much and trying to make it a true spoof. I got talked into this thing and now may be acting mysef outa it before the dress rehearsal. Pray for me.

Old Fart

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd peterfranz 11/18/2006
Hello Bob G.

In the broadest sense your piece on The Road is positivist so, in a similarly broad sense, I'm inclined to agree with its general thrust. But that doesn't mean I'm going to let you get away with the following…

"Did she prostitute herself to help the family cope with want and suffering? ("my own whorish heart")" Such a reading makes utter nonsense of McCarthys clear intent and is impossible to justify. Earlier in the same passage (pg 48), she accepts that the man may think her 'sluttish' for taking 'a new lover', death. Her use of the word 'whorish' is in reference to her new lover, not any past actions. Paraphrased she is saying this: "I have a new lover to whose embrace I will yield myself unconditionally in a way I have not done before. I will no longer play the part of whore." (On a different note. McCarthy's prose is less than perfect in this passage because, it transpires that, the heart made whorish, with which she is now done, was ripped out of her the 'night he was born' anyway?! No great matter but a niggling lapse.)

Further on…

"Guided by the father, the son grows in perception and purpose. Well before the end of the novel, he and the man are approaching problems and making decisions on an equal basis." I see no evidence for this. On at least three occasions the man acts in direct opposition to his son's wishes, sometimes reducing him to a state of almost uncontrollable fear that makes for very uncomfortable reading indeed. The man, by a process of cajoling and reason and (in the best sense of the word) patronage, certainly includes his son in the decision making process insofar as he discusses things with him, but the decisions are the man's, and not in any meaningful or consequential sense the boys. One should note that this apparent inclusiveness is a function of the style of the dialogue as much as anything else. (Hope you don't mind if I add that a child who may be as young as seven, though probably eight or nine, is entitled to be 'naïve'. He is a child after all.)

I'd like to do more on this but out of time at the moment.

Thanks for the geographical notes. 'Newfound Gap' hardly needs further comment!

pf

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Bob G. 11/18/2006
Peter Franz,

(1)I wasn't trying to get away with anything, was merely throwing out some guessing questions about what might be between the lines about the wife. Certainly she's taking a new lover (death) as she clearly says and "faithless slut" is her idea of what the man may think of her.

But "whorish" appears in the same or very near the same context as the line about her heart being ripped out when her son was born.(bottom of p.48) She says, "I am done with my own whorish heart and I have been for a long time." This line suggests an earlier time period to me. The question arises, what did she do back then to make her think whore of herself? Did she at some point in time get over the feeling of being a slut because she wanted a new lover, and now she's "come out," so to speak, and ready to go off and hump ole death with abandon? Or might she have actually done some human whoring to make her feel that way about herself and now she's over that feeling? Well, here I go asking questions again, but I don't want to make you nervous.

(2)Perhaps I should have said, "The man and boy are approaching some problems and making decisions about them on a near-equal basis." I see this happening with the jars of vegetables on pp. 174-175. On p. 206 the decision not a write a sand letter to the good guys is arrived at mutually. I believe there are other such places but don't have time to search them out now. I'll try to get back with you about this.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Bob G. 11/19/2006
P. Franz,

Adding to my points above:

(1)If "The Road" has a weakness: it's the wife. We're given things like "whorish heart," heart ripped out when son was born, and son blandly saying "She's gone, isn't she?" but not enough information to draw anything like a solid interpretation of her character. We're left with her attitude, mostly self-absorbed and despairing and the temptation to ask questions about what she might mean in addition to what she says and what's said about and to her (Well, Cormac, lead us not into such temptation). A few of my essay questions about her might have strayed too far into extra-text speculation.

In a way or two she reminds me of Glanton in BM whom I called in a previous thread ("Where Have All The Flowers Gone"--where is that thread anyway, Marty? Tried to find it but couldn't.)"a killer without a cause." To me, the wife comes off as something of an erstwhile whore (at least at heart)but without a designated or even hinted-at deed.

(2)I also see near-equality of father and son in the tell-me-a-story-I-don't-want-to part that concludes with both resigned to their suffering existence and the part about dreams, crying and the man's hurt leg (pp. 225-228).

Thanks for prompting me to revise one of my views of the father-son relationship.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Bob G. 11/19/2006
Candy,

Interesting take. What do you mean by "the personality of the novel at one point cuts off its feminine side"? Is the narrator the personality? The wife? What are we to make of the wife saying, "I am done with my own whorish heart and I have been for a long time"? Is this her way of surviving and living but not fully in your view? Of course she chooses to segregate herself from son and husband and leaves to die, presumably, by her own hand.

I agree that, given the circumstances he's in, the boy emerges as about as fully rounded a person for his age as one could expect.

I'm afraid Cormac does not draw the wife well enough for us to get much insight into her either connotatively or allegorically.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd peterfranz 11/19/2006
I think McCarthy's information about the wife is sufficient to his purposes as author. It is true that that is not the same thing as giving information sufficient for readers whose purpose is to extrapolate more background for the novel. By doing that one ends up with something that will be defined by matters of taste and preferance but it will not be the novel that McCarthy wrote.

Like any author, the most powerful tools McCarthy has to hand are imagery and metaphor and the resonance the use of them sets up in the mind of the reader. In that sense, all one needs to do is to read the book sympathetically. Speculating about the infinitude of plot details that may or may not have appeared in versions of the road that McCarthy has not, on this occasion, written just creates a background noise that is bound to interfere with the score that McCarthy has actually given us.

The ultimate meaning of the road does not end with the text; it does, however, begin with a sensible reading of that text.

pf


ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Bob G. 11/20/2006
Candy,

Reading TR as a whole person or consciousness reminds me of a reading by another Forumer (don't recall his or her name)of NCFOM with Moss=water, Chigurh=fire, and Bell=spirit (I may not have those pairings quite right). Your and this person's views may be right on the money with McCarthy's intentions. As for me, I have a hard time reading him allegorically. Allegory tends toward one-to-one relationships between story elements and authorial ideas. Cormac may be more of a multiple symbolist here and there, but I say that guardedly.

P. Franz,

I'm wondering if you implied that I had created "backgound noise" about the wife in TR with the questions I asked about her in my web essay. These were mere questions not interpretations, speculative granted, but no more so than all the guesses about what caused the novel's world catastrophe. Are you suggesting that it's OK to guess about such a situation but not about the background of a character of whom the author has said precious little?

You can always argue about what a character or situation in McCarthia ultimately means(Look at the copious light years of Forum words blipped about the judge). Maybe we shouldn't be looking for ultimate meaning in such a complex writer as McCarthy, I don't know. It's popular among some Forumers to talk of his "world view," but I still don't see any overarching "world view" in McCarthy.

Anyway, I, too, would like to know what you mean by "a sensible reading" of TR or of any other McCarthy work.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Bob G. 11/20/2006
You make perfect sense to me, Candy, and your sensitivity and compassion always shine through as in you recent work in the soup kitchen with good folks who are apparently trying to make physical and mystical sense out of this complex thing called life. Keep up the vital work you're doing.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd peterfranz 11/20/2006
Bob and Candy. I will get back to you on your posts (at length I fear!), but right now I'm knackered, wiped out and shattered. I'm at the end of my particular road for this day at least and I'm off to bed for a dreamless sleep. Later (tomorrow probably).

G'night.

pf

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Bob G. 11/21/2006
Candy,

I haven't read "Love's Body" or any of the other works you mention in your last post, but thanks for mentioning them. I used to know something about Norman O. Brown, having read some excerpts from him long ago, but now I can't think of a dang one. Senioritis, I guess. But, hey, I'm not complaining. Each new day's a gift.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd theoldwomanintheschool 11/23/2006
I've read many of the threads, but not all, and I haven't seen any postings where someone considers that this is the rapture. At first I assumed this was a nuclear winter, but as I read it it began to bother me that there are no signs of radiation and also the concept of nuclear winter is very 70s. Even though Cormac McCarthy is old school, he's not out of date usually. Then after talking this over with others, I considered that this is a comet, but I don't know if that appeals to Cormac McCarthy's interest in the unthinking mind of evil. The comet hit is just too random and morally meaningless. It's always been obvious that McCarthy has been interested in the apopcalyptic, but not in the way Jerry Falwell is interested in the apopcalyptic. So is this the rapture with the child as a not-quite-as-forseen second coming, who at the end of the book is hanging on by his figure nails, appropo Cormac McCarthy's usual view of goodness in the world?

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Bob G. 11/23/2006
theoldwomanintheschool,

I really don't see anything in TR to suggest "the rapture." Nor is the child some supernatural "messiah." Though innately compassionate and described in angelic terms in two or three places, he remains an earthbound child, mostly fearful and greatly in need of help, a boy who is learning and growing up fast under terrible conditions but not fast enough to strike out on his own. Significantly, he gains what he needs at the story's end: new father and mother figures.

You're right about McCarthy being far removed from anything apocalyptically Falwellian. Something like "the rapture" appears in Paul's first letter to the Thessalonians, but the idea didn't get popularized till the late 19th century and then only among a number of extremists. To my knowledge, "the rapture" has never been part of most mainstream Christian churches. It's certainly not an idea that McCarthy would have been taught in his Roman Catholic period, though he very probably read and/or heard of it later. It's hard to miss these days, the media being the sensational organs that they are.

It just struck me that a parody of the ending of "Blood Meridian" might happen thus: the judge is gleefully dancing naked, a hit to the whole saloon, proclaiming he'll never die, when suddenly he starts to levitate and dance upward on air and the ceiling bursts open and the sky splits asunder and the thunderous voice of the Demiurge roars across the rooftops of the world, "Come, my son, oh come ye in thrilling union with me," and zoom, Holden shoots to his source, gone forever in a cloud of glory.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Clif 11/29/2006
It is a struggle to balance youthful optimism and aged cynicism.Too much in either direction could cost them their physical and spiritual lives.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd blackhiller 11/29/2006
I tend to agree with Bob here, though there are elements that ring true to Hal Lindsay's _Late Great Planet Earth_ (the most popularized version of the "Rapture"). The fires and scorched earth. A righteous remnant ("the good people"). The possibility of it being a nuclear event. But Lindsay and others like Falwell and LaHaye and company are such literalists that they generally talk about the 144,000 righteous survivors as being more or less exact, and all of them come to God only after the Rapture and only through Christ--and these exegeses usually make them all Jewish converts. Moreover, the bad guys are gone after all the post-Rapture destruction. Etc.

But I don't agree at all with Rick that the event was "no doubt" nuclear, instead side with the ambiguity angle and think it is intertextually and otherwise intended by McCarthy to be ambiguous (I was the original arguer for the meteor strike cause--both that and a nuclear approach fit in with previous McCarthy works like BM and TC, of course). There are problems with either as a cause, but I haven't had time to verify certain aspects of both nor seen them all dealt with here on the forum.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd jeffr 11/29/2006
blackhiller et al

I find these comparisons of the world of TR to 'the rapture' to be provincial to the point of quaintness.

Focus on literal interpretations of The Book of Revelation is a part of some strange and minor christian cults originating and mostly confined to North America.

Granted CMcC sets his stories in clearly inscribed regions of North America.
But his themes have a scope that extends beyond the biblical, encompassing a lot of mystical systems that are far more broad, deep and enduring.

This 'rapture' idea is the pop-theology of comic books.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd siropJack 12/3/2006

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Richard L. 12/3/2006
The Book of Revelation
by Rob Spillman
The premise of Cormac McCarthy's new novel, The Road, is simple: In a ruined, postapocalyptic future, a nameless father and his young son—"each the other's world entire"—trudge down a road toward the ocean, with the hope of finding a warmer, more hospitable locale. Along the way, they scrounge for cans of food in cities and countryside already thoroughly pillaged by other refugees. Death from starvation and exposure hovers, but a more immediate terror is the constant threat of dismemberment by roving bands of cannibals, for this is what most survivors have been reduced to. There is an urgency to each page, and a raw emotional pull in the way McCarthy, the poet laureate of violence, known for brutal and biblical novels like Child of God (1973) and Blood Meridian, or, The Evening Redness in the West (1985), renders the father's attempts to keep alive the hopes of the young boy as well as his own, making it easily one of the most harrowing books you'll ever encounter. Nearly unreadable in its heartbreaking detail, it is also, once opened, nearly impossible to put down; it is as if you must keep reading in order for the characters to stay alive.

Hardcore fans would have forgiven the seventy-three-year-old legend (the galley cover announces "His New Novel," as if God himself had written the book) had he produced another in his recent string of accessible novels. Some might see it as a return to form, but The Road diverges from his earlier work as McCarthy switches the focus from the hunters to the hunted. And some might see this free-floating futuristic nightmare as a radical departure, yet for true believers who'd followed the signs in his previous work, this is where they hoped he would arrive.

Awful things happen in each of his other books, but they are done by and to characters who seem to be situated in the distant past, even in his last novel, No Country for Old Men (2005), set along the present-day "Texico" border. Nabokov famously called his characters "galley slaves," and reading McCarthy, you've always felt that he's had a similarly iron grip on his people, an army of loners and misfits advancing their leader's relentless crusade to hold on to a vanishing America. With his singular prose—part biblical invective, part southern gothic, part Faulknerian locution, all in service to a Melvillean obsessiveness—McCarthy has raged against the erosion of traditions, the fading of ways of life, the obsolescence of trades, the forgetting of dialects. He has championed a rugged, individualist rural survivalism practiced by marginal men and women, refugees, seekers, the sick and the weird, outsiders. Many of these characters are presented as horrible, unsavable—an "encampment of the damned" is how McCarthy refers to the band of losers in Suttree (1979), his sprawling tale of Knoxville misfits surviving in the cracks of the city. While many of the characters in that book are drawn from real life, the novel isn't autobiographical. McCarthy did, however, as a young man turn his back on Knoxville society, and he has lived in the shadows ever since.

Born in Rhode Island, McCarthy moved to Tennessee at age four, when his father began working as a lawyer for the Tennessee Valley Authority. He left college, joined the air force for four years, and moved back to Knoxville. He completed his first four novels, each of them set in Tennessee, then drifted down to El Paso, where he absorbed the violent mythos of the West, writing five more novels, his reputation shifting from the South's Son of Faulkner to the True Voice of the West. Not much more is known about the recluse. In his forty-plus-year career, McCarthy has given all of two interviews, one in 1992, to the New York Times Magazine, and one in 2005, to Vanity Fair, both to Richard B. Woodward. The portrait that emerges is one of a social conservative with a mission to write unsentimentally about the brutal lives of the formidable individuals who staked their claims westward.

* * *

"There's no such thing as life without bloodshed," he said in 1992. "I think the notion that the species can be improved in some way, that everyone could live in harmony, is a really dangerous idea. Those who are afflicted with this notion are the first ones to give up their souls, their freedom. Your desire that it be that way will enslave you and make your life vacuous." In 2005, he picked right back up on the theme: "Most people don't ever see anyone die. It used to be if you grew up in a family you saw everybody die. They died in their bed at home with everyone gathered around. Death is the major issue in the world. For you, for me, for all of us. It just is. To not be able to talk about it is very odd."

While many authors write about extinction, some obsessively, what separates McCarthy is how candidly unredemptive his portrayals of violence and fatality are. His most gruesome work, Blood Meridian, is also the one most critics consider his best, and to judge by the appearance in 2001 of a Modern Library edition, it has entered the postwar pantheon. In the novel, McCarthy takes the American myth of regeneration through violence and manifest destiny and thoroughly guts it. Following its stunningly simple first line—"See the child"—McCarthy refuses to comfort us with meaning as he follows a mid-nineteenth-century Tennessee teenager who drifts down to Texas and winds up in a band hunting Apache scalps in Mexico.

McCarthy's spectacularly inventive descriptions of landscape capture the familiar character of the West yet at the same time completely defamiliarize what you think you know. As clear as an Ansel Adams photograph, McCarthy's landscapes are simultaneously surreal, a world wholly of the author's own creation. In the way that Faulkner's South is very like the real South but also totally different, McCarthy's West is unmappable, yet you can swear that you've seen it:

All night sheetlightning quaked sourceless to the west beyond the midnight thunderheads, making a bluish day of the distant desert, the mountains on the sudden skyline stark and black and livid like a land of some other order out there whose true geology was not stone but fear.

Page after page of the novel is covered in blood, first from the native Apaches whom the band relentlessly hunts down, then from anyone who happens to cross its shadow. The scalp hunters are led through this blighted land by "the judge," an amoral, shaved-headed giant who doesn't so much justify the carnage as explain its usefulness: "War is the truest form of divination. It is the testing of one's will and the will of another within that larger will which because it binds them is therefore forced to select. War is the ultimate game because war is at last a forcing of the unity of existence. War is god."

McCarthy's tour de force was hailed by critics, yet it failed to garner him a wide audience. With his lack of sentimentality and his linguistic invention, McCarthy never made things easy for his readers, ensuring his status as a "writer's writer." His core fans, those weaned on, say, Child of God, an arguably sympathetic portrayal of a serial-
killing necrophiliac, however, couldn't wait to see where he'd go next. Where could he, after hell?

To these readers, All the Pretty Horses (1992) and the following two novels of the Border Trilogy, The Crossing (1994) and Cities of the Plain (1998), seemed to be something of a retreat, à la Ian McEwan going from the narrow-gauge grimness of The Cement Garden (1978) and Black Dogs (1992) to the diffuse if sweeping epics that
are Atonement (2002) and Saturday (2005). Yet what some thought of as McCarthy
lite turned out to be widely popular, the postwar cowboy sagas generating big
sales and many awards. When All the Pretty Horses won the National Book Award,
it seemed like a makeup prize for Blood Meridian, which had been overlooked seven years earlier.

Set above and below the Rio Grande near El Paso, the Border Trilogy nevertheless pushes McCarthy's themes of loss and fatality, albeit in a sweeter fashion, building in honest-to-goodness love stories. The slowly fading traditions of ranch life, along with the tension between staying in the family's hard-won home (Texas) and exploring the wild unknown (Mexico, and Mexican women), are treated with surprising tenderness. The novels constitute a shift from Wagnerian thunder to Puccinian storytelling, from Götterdämmerung to the sad tale of Madama Butterfly. While one marvels at the unrelenting brilliance of Blood Meridian, it is hard to connect emotionally with any of its characters. In that book, McCarthy sought to capture a complete worldview, a total synthesis of the idea of the West; it is about condensing reality, about "the beauty of a sudden density of life," as Milan Kundera puts it in his just-published book-length essay, The Curtain: An Essay in Seven Parts, about the use of history in fiction. Few tears are shed as most every character in Blood Meridian is killed. Yet I doubt there is anyone—even in McCarthy's core audience of fervent male fans—who doesn't bawl when it becomes clear that the boy's wolf isn't going to make it in The Crossing.

* * *

If the Border Trilogy feels a bit sepia, No Country for Old Men (which came out last year, seven years after Cities of the Plain) is starkly black-and-white. In the novel, set in the present-day Deep Southwest, McCarthy tracks an ill-fated welder named Llewelyn Moss who stumbles upon the aftermath of a heroin-gang shootout in the desert, makes off with $2.4 million, and is then chased by all sorts of nasty outlaws. With the feel of a fleshed-out screenplay, this noirish novel is crisply paced, its staccato narration broken only by the ruminations of the old Texas sheriff who pines for the simpler days of Colt-packing outlaws, not the new bands of amoral hoodlums with Uzis (it seems he didn't read Blood Meridian). Yet there are echoes as he pines, "You cant go to war without God." And Anton Chigurh, the ice-cold killer who comes to retrieve the stolen money, could be related to the judge. At one point, Wells, another bounty hunter, confronts Chigurh's otherworldliness:

"You think you're outside of everything," Wells said. "But you're not."
"Not everything. No."
"You're not outside of death."

There it is again: death and more death. However, in No Country for Old Men, the murderous rampage is distant, symbolic, mathematically elegant, balanced. There is some metaphysical musing but nothing that would prepare readers for the new novel, or even for The Sunset Limited, McCarthy's play (recently staged in Chicago and New York) that is being published simultaneously with The Road. McCarthy's plays (there is one other, 1994's The Stonemason: A Play in Five Acts) are more thematically direct than his novels. While both new works confront mortality, the novel is about persisting to live, the play about persisting to die. Both mark a departure for the author—while his first five novels were primarily concerned with killing, his last four have been about obsolescence, and now, finally, he's either facing death head-on (in The Sunset Limited) or outrunning the grim reaper (in The Road).

In The Sunset Limited, two nameless men, referred to only as Black and White, sit in the black man's kitchen. Black, a religious ex-con who happily lives in a flophouse where he tries to save the "moral leper colony," has just caught the white professor as he tried to hurl himself in front of an oncoming train. Over the course of the play, White explains with great erudition why he is going to try to kill himself again, while Black, armed with only rough life experience and religious conviction, tries to talk White out of death. It's a bit like watching a prizefight between a seasoned vet and a plucky, totally overmatched greenhorn.

"The things I believed in dont exist any more," White argues. "It's foolish to pretend that they do. Western Civilization finally went up in smoke in the chimneys at Dachau but I was too infatuated to see it. I see it now." Later, Black can only come back with "Sometimes faith might just be a case of not havin nothin else left."

Against such simple faith, McCarthy loads up his white challenger with an unstoppable nihilistic arsenal: "The darker picture is always the correct one. When you read the history of the world you are reading a saga of bloodshed and greed and folly the import of which is impossible to ignore. And yet we imagine that the future will somehow be different. I've no idea why we are even still here but in all probability we will not be here much longer." Zap!

"Evolution cannot avoid bringing intelligent life ultimately to an awareness of one thing above all else and that one thing is futility." Pow!

And finally, the kicker: "Every road ends in death. Or worse." Bam!—on the canvas.

But what could be worse than death? With The Road, McCarthy gives us his answer. The Road isn't Faulkner territory, or Melville. It's more like the philosophical locale of another drifter iconoclast—Joseph Conrad, especially the ideas found in his masterwork, Heart of Darkness. Think of Conrad's meditation on the breakdown brought on by hunger: "No fear can stand up to hunger, no patience can wear it out, disgust simply does not exist where hunger is; and as to superstition, beliefs, and what you may call principles, they are less than chaff in a breeze. Don't you know the devilry of lingering starvation, its exasperating torment, its black thoughts, its somber and brooding ferocity?"

The Road opens with the father and son starving and very cold. The father believes that they will be safer farther south, so they must follow the road, pushing their meager belongings in a shopping cart while scrounging around for overlooked tins of food. It is the ruined landscape familiar from past novels, yet now it is truly blasted from some unnamed conflagration and is blanketed with falling ash and frequent cold rains. "By day the banished sun circles the earth like a grieving mother with a lamp."

Even the page seems blasted. McCarthy long ago ditched apostrophes, but now there is a swath of white space after each paragraph, as if to set off every moment as a struggle simply to live. You still need a damn good dictionary (what the hell is a gryke, anyway?), but the prose is stripped down to essentials, like the world itself: "The frailty of everything revealed at last."

McCarthy's descriptions of tools are informative, tactile, and specific; he understands their intimate connection to human survival—the saddles and all of the accoutrements of riding horses in his western novels, and of course the guns in all of his novels ("The rifle strapped over his shoulder with a harness-leather sling was a heavybarreled .270 on a '98 Mauser action with a laminated stock of maple and walnut"). In The Road, the mechanics of tarps, wrappings, firemaking, and even the shopping cart are precisely rendered. A wobbling wheel could spell doom, so "he pulled the bolt and bored out the collet with a hand drill and resleeved it with a section of pipe he'd cut to length with a hacksaw."

The dialogue, too, is minimal, and mainly limited to what is essential to the pair's minute-to-minute survival. The father's focus narrows and then becomes narrower still: "The world shrinking down about a raw core of parsible entities. The names of things slowly following those things into oblivion. Colors. The names of birds. Things to eat. Finally the names of things one believed to be true."

The boy's mother has killed herself rather than try to survive any longer. The father recalls trying to talk her out of abandoning them; he argued, "Death is not a lover," to which she replied, "Oh yes he is." The father carries a gun with enough bullets to kill his son and himself. When the two finally do come across another human, he is as scorched as the land, having recently been struck by lightning, but is somehow still alive. It is a horrible vision, yet one that feels like a moment of levity compared with the scenes of lonely terror preceding it. Despite the boy's protests, they leave the smoking man and cautiously proceed.

All about are signs of cannibals—lines of skulls, blood in the grass where victims have been "field-dressed." In one of the most memorable scenes in Blood Meridian, cocksure cowboys attack a ragged band of horse thieves, only to find themselves ambushed by an army of Apaches hiding amid the horses. "A legion of horribles, hundreds in number, half naked or clad in costumes attic or biblical . . . or silk finery and pieces of uniform still tacked with the blood of prior owners." In The Road, these "horribles" have morphed into a cannibal army, which the father and son observe marching past as they hide in a ditch: "The phalanx following carried spears or lances tasseled with ribbons, the long blades hammered out of trucksprings in some crude forge upcountry." If that isn't horrific enough, they encounter a smaller group of cannibals, who trap people going down the road and eat them piece by piece, keeping their victims alive for as long as possible.

In this grim world, the young boy still carries with him a yellow toy truck, and in a moment of pure pathos asks his father, "Are we still the good guys?" The father tells him, "Yes. We're still the good guys." Yet he can't help thinking the worst, for they are facing the worst: "He saw for a brief moment the absolute truth of the world. The cold relentless circling of the intestate earth. Darkness implacable."

Amid the bracing immediacy, we begin to detect a Beckettian dilemma of intelligent existence: Why go on when there is nothing to go on for? And if you know that there is nothing down the road, do you travel down it anyway?

The boy stoically soldiers on but finally asks his father, "What are our long term goals?"

"What?"
"Our long term goals."
"Where did you hear that?"
"I dont know."
"No, where did you?"
"You said it."
"When?"
"A long time ago."
"What was the answer?"
"I dont know."
"Well. I dont either. Come on. It's getting dark."

Reduced to an almost animalistic state, their thoughts of a future have been obliterated. After fleeing the cannibal trap, they come upon an old man who could be right out of Beckett's How It Is, his novel about an old man carrying a sack of canned goods through the mud. The stranger blithely walks down the road, not trying to hide like the other refugees, too thin and decimated even for the cannibals. The father engages him in a Beckettian inquiry about his reason for going on, culminating in:

"Do you wish you would die?"
"No. But I might wish I had died."

The two are undeterred: "Then they set out upon the road again, slumped and cowled and shivering in their rags like mendicant friars sent forth to find their keep." The biblical language suggests that theirs is a pilgrimage, that the boy, if he lives, could save the world. Yet McCarthy offers no such redemption. All faith has been lost. Everything has been lost. And after yet another close call, the father almost wishes that they had been caught or that he had had to shoot his son and himself. God, or perhaps McCarthy himself, seems to taunt the father: "Do you think that your fathers are watching? That they weigh you in their ledgerbook? Against what? There is no book and your fathers are dead in the ground."

They travel past unspeakable horrors—a charred infant on a spit, masses of mummified people in melted cars, their masks of terror frozen in the moment of the conflagration—onward toward the sea, which the father cannot tell the boy for certain will be blue.

The Road is a deeply imagined work and harrowing no matter what your politics. Perhaps it is a projection to say that McCarthy needed to remain outside the literary world to write this, that the Border Trilogy and No Country for Old Men were diversions, practice runs for his most emotional work to date. It's as if we need him to be pure, to stare down death for us.

Toward the end of The Road, the father—and McCarthy—see the ultimate blackness all too well:

Perhaps in the world's destruction it would be possible at last to see how it was made. Oceans, mountains. The ponderous counterspectacle of things ceasing to be. The sweeping waste, hydroptic and coldly secular. The silence.

Rob Spillman is editor of the literary magazine Tin House.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Richard L. 12/3/2006
The entire review above is by Rob Spillman. THE ROAD has received some outstanding reviews, but that is one of the best I've yet seen.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd blackhiller 12/3/2006
jeffr,

Uh, where's anything in my entries above that indicate I don't agree with your statements on the Rapture and the presence of religious/spriritual references other than Christianity ? I do, and consistently have. I'm simply pointing out that I can see how some, mistakenly from my view, read it thus, that it's not a complete disjunction. But I certainly don't see it as a valid reading.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd jeffr 12/3/2006
blackhiller.

With you on that.
Sorry that I began lazily with the 'blackhiller et al', I only wished to include all commenters on the 'rapture' angle.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd bob g. 12/3/2006
Rob Spillman's review is comprehensive and insightful and I appreciate Richard including it here, apparently in its totality. But I disagree with at least two of its points. (1)"While many of the characters in that book ["Suttree"] are drawn from real life, the novel isn't autobiographical." Well, it is autobiographical, at least partly so, and I'm ready to say more than "partly." There are just too many parallels of Bud Suttree with Charles (Cormac) McCarthy Jr. for it not have strong autobiographical colorings. I could give many examples but I've Forumed enough today.

(2)"Toward the end of The Road, the father—and McCarthy—see the ultimate blackness all too well...." Spillman stresses the novel's blackness and what he calls the "Beckettian dilemma of intelligent existence," but he doesn't doesn't deal with the hopeful dimension of the novel. There's no mention of orphan boy with parka man et. al. and no attempt to interpret the most complex part of the novel, the last paragraph. This reader would love to see what Spillman has to say about that.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd wesmorgan 4/2/2007
John Sepich and Christopher Forbis have just published "A Concordance to The Road by Cormac McCarthy. It should be a very valuable resource to scholars and fans. (And it is online and free!)

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd sslucher 4/2/2007
Thanks for the tip, Wes. I can't wait to get into it.

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Ken 4/4/2007
Wes Morgan: Great, thanks.

The "glaucoma" on page 3 of TR to describe the atmosphere echoes the description of the sky as "glaucous" on page 121 of TOK.

In TOK, "needle" is used in different senses in different parts of the text. Conatser "needled" Sylder into a fight; the girl June Tipton picked up said that he "needled" her to describe their sexual encounter.

John Sepich's, Christopher Forbis's, and Wes Morgan's concordances (available now are OD, BM, TC, TR) will speed up searches and make some tasks easier ... though I feel compelled to put in a good word for plain ol' memory!

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd wes-morgan 9/14/2008
September 14, 2008: A milestone. The Road has now been on The New York Times Book Review's Paperback Best Sellers Trade Fiction List for a year (#6 this week).

With The Road still selling like hotcakes with another bump expected after the release of the movie, when oh when will the next McCarthy novel get a chance to see the light of day?

ROAD6 - first thoughts cont'd Rick Wallach 9/14/2008
Hard question from a hard man.

Ask Dennis....?


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