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Topic: McCarthy's Southern Works
Thread: How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos

Total messages for all days: 27

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	blackhiller	3/24/2007
Bob, Thanks for sharing that J-Bone story--quite interesting, something I've wondered about more than once. You also hit strongly on one of the reasons paradox is so integral to mysticism along with the ineffable: there's the paradoxes of the ineffables. Mystics constantly verbalize their ineffable experiences. And the cultural boundedness of mystical experiences that McCarthy spoke to Wallace about fits in with all of that as well: every expression will turn out differently and each is merely an approximation of the actual "experience." Stephen, Yes, "Mm" and "Mm hm" would seem to me obvious suggestions of "Om," particularly given their leitmotific nature in the play. They even are used for rather different responses/meanings, depending on the context. The closeness to "Om" is no mere accident, I'm convinced. However, it should also be pointed out that, contrary to popular representation and opinion, "Om" (often written as "OM") is not the only such "word-nonword" utterance used as a mantra or whatever (and is a vocalization of the ineffable). It's also worth noting that Black's final use of it comes on page 136, 7 pages before the play ends and we have the "son" (Black) asking the "father" (God) if it's _"okay"_ he continue to "keep your word"--which in context is ineffable as well.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	Lee Driver	3/24/2007
It's too bad that when truth is spoken or discovered, or stumbled upon, or chosen, lightning doesn't strike and thunder crash right then and there, so's we could check that one off, or set it like a building block. That a truth that resonates with one doesn't with another makes it so like quicksand. If something’s true godammit, it should be true, like in universally. The ineffability inevitably comes in and we’re forced to refer or resort to parables, or such descriptions as, “it’s like…” this, or this here. One universal truth is everybody dies. There's a rock we can stand on. But then, damned if someone or something doesn't come along and bring varying concepts of eternal or after life into the mix, making it mushy all over again. Yes, everybody dies but then some, by adherence to this code no this one, are saved and some are condemned to… And the story begins. Or the war. Jihad anyone? It seems to be a human trait to strive for, to cling to, certainty. Often someone like Black with a checkered past, will realize, usually at some dark-night-of-the-soul point, they're not doing too well for themself or anyone else for that matter, going along free style as it were, with no belief or guiding principle, and will reach out for something known to hang on to, like a liferaft, a hitching post, a set of instructions or a code of ethics, or behavior; like, “I hang my belief on this hook, hook my wagon to this train. And Faith is born and will fill in the blanks. Black’s one of those bad guys who got religion like Tooky Williams. Whether Mr. Williams after his execution was saved for his good works, or condemned for his earlier bad deeds, we don’t know. Some will claim to know. Basically, the whole argument is delivered into the realm of imagination. Sorry if that’s sacrilege: 99 virgins? burn in hell forever? eternal bliss? put on the shelf for a later return to earth…? Take your pick. Hell, it’s all true. Pat Robertson’s got him burning in hell - f able, the Dalai Lama’s got him ready on the shelf or already reborn - effable. Mr. McCarthy was raised Catholic. Anybody who knows the slightest of that programming, knows how deeply imprinted a child who experienced it comes out, and that no matter what body of “knowledge” they later acquire to supplant or amplify those early building blocks, it’s nigh on to impossible to get truly loose from it. It’s like a haunting. But we can be grateful because it quite probably is why this artist, this great artist is so relentless in his probings of the deeper questions/motivations we’re all subject to. The Sunset Limited is, at the time it is written, a dialogue he’s having with himself, and a great one, a musing in passing, ongoing, posing questions, trying out answers, moving on through. The ending at the door, is a doorway. The quest or insistence for certainty, is our undoing every time. Those Arab factions killing eachother in Bhagdad are each and every one in possession of the one true faith. They have, like many Christians, taken a beautiful piece of intricately, exotically woven fabric rippling in the breeze, and driven nails into it to preserve it, to hold it down, which of course ruins it. The Indians had it right calling it all the great mystery, letting it furl and snap in the wind, awesome – ineffable. One night on beach in Mexico I was about to be murdered by a group of men when a light flashed three times over us. This had the effect of dropping the main guy to his knees, and crying with a quivering lip to his Mother Mary. My life and that of my woman companion were saved by this. I have no idea what it was or why. But I have to say, I fuckin well believe in it. I fear Mr. White would be unaffected by my story because he has no such thing. Like Mr. Black, I would wish to convince him, but it wouldn’t matter much. I’m with McCarthy in that the greater mystery is that more people don’t have mystical experiences to refer to.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	reepss	3/24/2007
if we're talking "mystical experiences" i guess i;d wonder ,, what about degrees? (lol..gnomons?) for some, a mystical experience requires no more then a grain of sand, or a nutshell for others they need the big one i guess.. lol..ayahusaca ceremonies done with all the accoutrements, full orisha inntiations with requisite "authentic" drummers, the good acid and barefoot as jerry plays dark star,, or maybe even the simply transcendent experience of meeting the dali lama (cash please, no credit cards!) to me the great mystery might be why canlt people accept the mystical experiences, that are happening every breath, every lightning flash of synapse (why? cause they'd have to be fools, the answer might be) its programming, true,, but it's (i;d like to argue,,but won't right now that the reasons sufis were meted out for extermination (not gonna dig for facts now, but had heard saddam had a special hard on for them,, lol,,as maybe so do i,, as sufiism was a great sounding board for posers, see indris shah)was because they promoted a "mystical" islam.) not that religion and i;ll say catholicism here, is the enemy, its the friend of the transcendent, and the well conceived destruction of the religious impulse in urban / modern/postmodern america is a way of control. they ( yes, lol,, they!!! ) are weeding out those prone to mystic types, relegating them to the dust bin. tell em there's no there there, and there's only here, and you better get what you can to make yourself feel good here.. like or money or a new car (make mine a prius!) and RESPECT! cause we sure don't want to be disrespected. time is money and time is what death needs to grow people in, the dudes pushing the money agenda ( my god i;ve never seen any woman wear larger strings of pearls then nancy! and shit, aint johns speedboat big! and johnny breck girl, that house is enormous!)dont want religion in the equation, cause you start playing with that religion,, and soon youre gonna start thinking that the comfort and security theyre selling aint all their is, and maybe theres a greater goal and maybe the game they want you to play,, well..you relaize you want to do some work, and make a soul. something that'll be able to blip out of temporality, and live a bit outside of their black iron prison, cause we all know, the empire never died black white? try create consume stimulate manipulate work game

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	bob g.	3/24/2007
Lee Driver, I'm trying to grasp all the points made in your last post. First, you say death is a bedrock truth. No denying that. Then you dismiss religious certainty and charge it with often causing oppression and war. Am I right so far? Then you devalue Black by comparing him to Tooky Williams followed by your contention that Cormac in SL had a Black-White dialog with himself that enabled him to pose dramatic questions through his two characters, transcend their "answers," and move to another (presumably higher?)level(symbolized by the "open door"?). You credit McCarthy's youthful Catholicism with giving him "building blocks" upon which he has developed dynamic, deeper senses of life's questions and motivations. Your "open door" metaphor seems to be saying that Cormac ends the play on a note of mystic mystery (endless possibility?), similar to the Indian (presumably Hindu?)sense of ultimate reality and similar to some mysterious something that saved you and your companion from murder on a Mexican beach and that Professor White would be unaffected by your story because, like Black, he lacks a sense of the mystical. How am I doing here? I await your answer before I say anything further.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	stephen brown	3/24/2007
Bob, that we like Black and would like him to be right doesn't make him right. That he was saved from death doesn't settle it that death is a bad thing; that he has love doesn't mean love is enough. McCarthy doesn't let him make headway, perhaps doesn't know how to HAVE him make headway. I wonder if it's even possible to not project your own beliefs onto this play? I'd like to think I don't--I do seem to be among the few outspoken people on the thread who doesn't think McCarthy essentially agrees with him or her. The Catholic answers, the ineffable answers, the people-who-have-strong-opinions-suck answers, and whatever the Hell reepss is talking about do seem to me to have less to do with examining the faultlines of Sunset Limited itself than carrying one's preexisting opinions into material that, hypothetically, is expressing someone else's. Maybe this is a testament to McCarthy's artistry, that we treat his fiction like something that happened, and argue it thusly.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	bob g.	3/25/2007
Stephen, I hope you don't think I'm imposing a Roman Catholic belief onto the play because I'm not. As I do with every piece of lit I study, I take what I see on the printed page, first the denotations, then the connotations, then the symbols, if they are clearly there (must admit I'm wary of overly symbolic writers and their oft-manipulated "trick bags" but try to take them on their own terms) and try to see what the author's getting at. It's not an exact science, as you no doubt know. In previous posts, I interpreted SL as a tragedy because that's what I think McC's words give here. I have neither the time nor the inclination right now to go back over that road. Given more time later, I might, as I respect your insights and efforts to try to understand this complex writer of ours. I do think you lean in White's direction, perhaps too far. I could be wrong but I see growing out of your posts your own sense of life's futility as if you expected something out of it that it hasn't given you. You mentioned or implied something about not being remembered by one or two or three generations after you pass as if being remembered is very important to you. Life doesn't owe us one damn thing, in my view. Nor should we get concerned about being remembered. Ultimately, noone's going to be remembered and this planet too shall pass. I don't see any of that as futile, just part of the multicosmic scheme of things. As for Reeps, I don't know what the hell he's talking about either and can't afford the time to try find out.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	Clement	3/25/2007
Actually, I think Mr. Reeps is just conveying his own mystical experience. The God he worships is the American State. It has, apparently, its own unerring scriptures, an idol to worship(The Eagle, or Chickenhawk?) as well creeds, liturgies, and even feast days for its saints. Emperor worship pre-dates Christianity, and as an ancient form, I try to respect it - at least until it demands of me a blood sacrifice - say like sending my son off to Iraq to kill and be killed for nothing. Black intimates that God might only speak to people that need to hear him. That God doesn't speak to White or give Black the words to help White can only mean from Black's point of view that we veer off into some approximation of Calvinism and White is/was never meant to be saved. It never means for Black that there might not be a God, because he is still there at the end, confessing his faith. Substitute mysticism for God and you essentially have McCarthy's position in the Wallace piece.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	kc	3/25/2007
I can’t agree that SL is a tragedy. Neither character is worse off at the end. I think it is more of a farce to press upon each of us the necessary but painful uncertainty in Driver’s wish for thunderbolts. Uncertainty while clamoring for certainty is the human condition. On an earlier thread I mentioned SL and The Life of Pi by Yann Martel. In each we are given two stories, and are left wondering why not simply choose the nicer one? This becomes a sort of Pascal’s wager for the living.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	mariettesinagony	3/25/2007
The fact that this thread is so long is evidence that y'all are completely ignorant to the answer, which is unpleasant yet utterly simple. The way to take Sunset Limited is UP THE BUNGHOLE, mes enfants. No, don't physically take the book and insert it physically; however, if you do read the book you will have to forgive yourselves for having been duped into reading it. Sorry if my answer offends (the alternative is to satisfy yourself with the myriad other responses to the question here, or whatever else you can come up with, and you're entitled to try to satisfy yourselves with such alternative), but sometimes the truth will hurt. And I believe I'm telling the truth here. My mother taught me, "If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all," but I know for sure that she was wrong. Naturally, I could be wrong about the specifics of her having been wrong, but I do know that I ought have said something to someone, even if that someone did not exist anywhere in my existence most of the time except in prayer. Yep, my other post today will be batshit, too, so be warned. --MStS

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	Clement	3/25/2007
Mariette, does this bunghole thing tie in with the jakes-privy-toilet theme? White sure does want to hear Black tell the story about alcoholics hiding their bottles in the toilet. It is also possible this is were the "Novel in Dramatic Form" subtitle comes from. It is acceptable to read a novel on the toilet, but never a play. At least in my social circles.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	Clement	3/25/2007
And as per KC I do think Pascal's Pensees inform the play very much, though the Wager I think is more evident in Chigurh in NCFOM.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	stephen brown	3/26/2007
Sorry I read you wrong, Bob. I forget the details--seems like a deep amnesia has fallen on the world, I'm no longer too clear on my own earlier opinions--but I had the sense you thought if Cormac McCarthy didn't agree with you he was about to any second. Probably the thing about him maybe rejoining the Church sometimes. But tragedy, tragedy it definitely is. I think the memory thing had mostly to do with genetics. There's a vast cattledrive of genes going on and we're promised a piece of the action, have kingly illusions of ownership, of becoming a seal on matter rather than one more thing sealed therein, but ultimately only get to herd and be trampled under. Other contributions such as McCarthy's of writing books finally pay little better, or in as false a coin. Rather than cosmic schemes I look to the momentary freedoms and brotherhood of the sensible energies gathered up in this dance. When you're pulled run with the pull (where advisable) till you get your inner stillness back, lazily open with everything compatible to your speed. The pleasures of life are pleasures, the knowledges knowledges, the loves loves. The ties on these things are the unrealities, the ripples on the pool that will contain again as soon as they go. White has a ripple frozen into his back. And I still think maybe McCarthy too.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	stephen brown	3/26/2007
Clement, your election remark seems dead on to me, and I think White would actually agree with you. He would say he had the misfortune of being cultured into an accurate knowledge that happens to be fatal. Anyone who hasn't tripped off that unseen cliff, or been lured onto one of the gently downhill paths leading unavoidably to it, is lucky, elect, safe.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	Queen Sago	3/26/2007
I think I've got something here...if only that I feel clearer on Stephen's position and Bob G's and others. First, I think Lee Drivers post above was quite astute and fair. Very insightful. I think Lee you made a good point about Catholic childhood and whether one rejects it or continues it may manifest as a deep dialogue and personal challenge. I actually understood your example of war as a response to spiritual calling, for the record, you made sense to me. Stephen, I went back to former thread and I ams orry I made you feel you had to clarify for "galzillionth time" I was very slow at understanding your perspective. Like Bob, I thought you were sounding like you wanted White to "win" and you were gravely disillusioned about life. I think I had trouble reading some of your thoughts and following them, I am sorry. I think what I may not have expressed clearly myself was that...I didn't mean to qualify an "aha moment" as being all flowers, bliss or tranquil. God no. I think it's entirely possible White has had a "mystical or spiritual experience". A spiritual experience has no formula for being all beaches and mountain landscape. It can be wild sea storms and cliffs. In fact, I think it is a common response rather than to embrace faith...but to feel disoriented, disturbed and confused after some people's response toa "peak experience" as often as faith. I think this is very important. White is justified in his own response to the nature of reality. It is not how I feel about life, but neither is Black...but if I swung one way, I suppose it would be towards faith. I have had troubling responses to intense philosophical and emotional experiences. I suppose a little like Woody Allen in Radio Days. Isn't that the movie where as a child he learns in school the sun is a star that may supernova? And afterwards he says why should he do his homework etc when the entire universe was going to dissolve anyways?. I felt that...for a few months in my life a kind of hopelessness, a meaninglessness to our human endeavors. I may have even sounded a bit like White to my family. There was concern, but my response kept moving. I dug around some more. I analyzed too and asked questions. I had sense of hopelessness on some level. I looked for answers. I think I still do, the differnce is I am enjoying the process. I think the process is something that needs to be encouraged. I came to admire people who are interfaith although I do not feel interfaith myself, but I'd like to think that each of us being different isn't an excuse for being judgmental or exclusive with others who have a different view of the world. I would say that I don't think it's healthy to be either Black or White. I think it's dangerous in fact. (this is why I feel Dawkins is a fanatic as much as a religious fundamentalist-both views are intolerant) In this I believe it's critical for children to learn that we don't always need to know an absolute answer or that there is one way to think and act. I think preparing young people for the varieties of philosophical perspectives would help them in life and in society. Perhaps life is best understood by accepting our doubts as a way to explore living through compassion rather than by looking at spiritual conflicts as a win-lose situation philosophically. And there I was several days ago thinking I didn't have anything else to say about Sunset Limited.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	mlow	3/26/2007
Far out...on the edge...am abgrund...transgressions...the joy...the joy... Audace, toujours l'audace... mhm

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	mariettesinagony	3/26/2007
Clement: Schizophrenia, or the desire to transform it, is the underlying theme of all literature, and McCarthy's specialty has been the very outermost limits of it, no? Am I wrong? If I am then I'd seriously like to hear what it really is. The sane definition. As for Black's war stories, I couldn't take White's interest as anything but - um - curiously passive filibustering. I believe White had already passed judgment on Black (and himself) and would not be able to turn it around past merely being ~jerked~ around emotionally by Black's odd helpful desperation. White's not going to be able to overcome his past bad faith, and I don't reckon I'd want White to be enough of an imbecile to believe otherwise. In other words, I don't believe the play can transcend its diseased symbiosis, except in comments about creators or playwrights which one as a reader really isn't safe believing. (What's on my mind at the moment is that gaping water buffalo Oprah Winfrey's endorsement of the latest pile of new age wahoo, The Secret, and the fact that no bookstore in Manhattan has any copies left because all the geniuses here went out and bought it. What's on my mind is prior new age prosthelyzation I'd received and that I'm angry about the damage it did. I didn't need to forgive anyone but yours truly, but they didn't have enough sense, even for their own sakes, to tell me that. Also a detail from a really horrible excuse for a novel, The Children's Hospital [a long MacSweeney's production and not recommended by moi] and how its anti-heroine protagonist used to have phantasies about a "Monsieur Toilet.") "Healers" can't heal when they're full of shit unless they have either an education or biologic pedigree in necromancy. Black cannot heal. The best he can do is extort pity. It's not going to occur to Black that he'd do well to stage a homosexual gang-rape of White. He's bought into too much of the bullshit of White's world already to be capable of it. But that's what's on deck for White, whether it happens before or after he dies, and whether it happens physically or it happens merely psychically. I've read plays and novels in the pit but never on the pot. I was taught that trivia and geography are the only appropriate fields of perusal to be conducted while eliminating negativity or wasting time on the toilet. But what do I know. There was lots of etiquette at Versailles, too, and look what happened. Hope that heps 'ya -MStS

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	stephen brown	3/26/2007
mariette, I've maybe been too close to schizophrenics to see metaphorical possibilities in the term; you're picking up on the early definition of it as the inability to recognize/respond to reality? If so, that's a pretty good definition of literature you have there. Homosexual...gang...rape?

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	Clement	3/26/2007
Ha ha..The Secret...and Bloom complains about Harry Potter? The Secret is one of those self-help books that really make me think we've really hit the iceberg. Time to elbow the women and children aside and hightail it for the lifeboats.... Okay, my late father was all for Russian novels and cigarettes in the toilet. I guess I had a bad role model. I return to earth with a rough duty to find, a Peasant! Like Stephen, I don't get the homosexual gang rape. Though its obvious that neither man has a lady friend.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	blackhiller	3/26/2007
Clem, In the words of Jeffrey Lebowski, isn't that a "fuckin' lady friend"? On a more serious note, there's been a run lately by several people of utter begging the question and dismissing ideas and arguments through them or the dubious non-starter accusation of anyone with a position on McCarthy's works as having preconceived agendas. How mindless.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	Lee Driver	3/27/2007
That's pretty good, a gang rape for White. He needs to be woke up if any change is going to take hold. To the jakes for him. Gentlemanly conversation with no stridency or revenge ain't gonna do it. If you remember, Carlos Casteneda asked Don Juan Matus his sorcerer mentor/buddy, "what can my friend do about his son, who's all fucked up and won't listen and is gonna hurt himself or somebody and go down the tubes?"(paraphrase) Don Juan thinks a minute and says, your friend should hire a complete stranger to jump out from behind a dumpster and beat the fuck out of the kid then disappear with no words. He needs to know bad shit (batshit?) can come outta nowhere w/o a clue. However, when White leaves Black's apartment, we pretty much assume he's gone again to meet the train. But then, maybe something Black said makes him want to think a minute and he goes in a bar, meets a girl, falls in love... and she dumps him. Nah, better straight to the jakes, no pass go. He needs a solid jolt, no? Mariette? Couple of weeks ago a friend who's been down in the dumps and going down steadily for a good while, called all pumped up, wanting me to count my blessings because he had just seen two people run over by a truck. He got on a plane yesterday to Toronto to go see his mom first time in 20 years. Hum. Gurdjeff, another wizard, said we need regular periodic shocks to our system to be alive like we're intended. And suggested we can give it to ourselves conciously, or wait around for the world to smack us, either way. One of these times, I'm gonna have nothing more to say Bob.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	bob g.	3/28/2007
Lee, Well, I wish ye a long life and lots of say before death interrupts you. May your electric consciousness continue on beyond the grave or better still be one with the "all" whatever that is. Wouldn't wish ye anything I wouldn't wish myself. And if the wish isn't fulfilled, won't matter anyway, will it? Need to git me over and finish the Oprah thread. Looks like Rick's gonna have to eat his dogs, for Cormac's already been taped. Or is the thing gonna be live? Haven't got the details straight yet.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	MarietteStS	4/7/2007
I did revisit Sunset Limited and confirmed my initial impression, which was, "Well, McCarthy had a nice little career." Yes, he now has more fans than ever and, yes, he's going to have more books to share. But there's no doubt (here) it'll be like Paul McCartney's music after the Beatles broke up. Lots of people loved it, including The Queen, but that's definitely not my cup of tea. I've no doubt those who cannot see the difference will continue idolizing him. Yeah, the inscription is Cartesian but jokingly. McCarthy has no control over these two characters. Black would prefer White be able to make use of him, White secretly wishes Black would commit suicide and save him the trouble, and another way to state McCarthy's wish is this: that White commit suicide without actually killing his body. Just give up his entire identity. He knows it'll never happen. So it's a bad joke. That it tries to pull on heartstrings just makes it more nauseating to me. I prefer The Good Shepherd to that kind of thing. You know, a chacun son gout, etc. Blood Meridian was spectacular, and being old-fashioned I loved Cities of the Plain and the two leading up to it. But I'm done with him. MStS

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	Lee Driver	4/7/2007
Bob, somehow I missed your post of the 28th. "I wish ye a long life and lots of say before death interrupts you." And to you, sir. "Wouldn't wish ye anything I wouldn't wish myself." That too. But as to "...And if the wish isn't fulfilled, won't matter anyway, will it?" I'd have to say, it just might, as unfulfilled dreams can get you reincarnated I hear, even against your will, kicking and screaming all down the chute. Which reminds me. Good to see you Mariette.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	stephen brown	4/7/2007
MarietteStS, when you say "Black would prefer White be able to make use of him, White secretly wishes Black would commit suicide and save him the trouble" are you reversing Black and White or what? And I don't understand what you mean about committing suicide without killing his body? McCarthy wants to no longer have to listen to White's voice in his head? And what is your case against late McCarthy in general? Is there a thread where you've sketched it out?

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	Mariette StS	4/7/2007
Stephen Brown, it's a narrative triple backflip caught in itself. So, yes, it sounds like it's backwards from what I'm saying, which is what McCarthy originally said. But I'm saying the opposite split in half and arranged forwards and backwards surrounding what was said, which is exactly what I said: Black wants to be effective, which means useful and desirable on some level to White; White wants to NOT use Black and just be rid of him; and -oh yes, McCarthy wants something better to write about than this. Committing suicide without killing one's body used to be known as "ego death" but real death got in the way and confused things so I wouldn't naturally phrase it that way without kicking around and hesitating. What it means is finding someone to love or at least something to accomplish so one can leave oneself or forget oneself. Religion and the expectation that one breed children used to serve that end quite effectively. White lacks an object, having been duped - or otherwise pushed - out of normalcy. He can relate neither to Black (White would be too bored with substance abuse and has moved on to consuming books badly instead) nor to God (which in this case is Cormac McCarthy his temporary ad hoc creator). Is White HAL from 2001: A Space Odyssey? No. Too bad. My case against McCarthy is simply this much, The Road was his last good book. Not even, since the child WHOAAAAAAH, I'm not going to open that argument. Let's just say that Cities of the Plain is the last McCarthy book I was able to believe. I know I'm in the minority; that's fine. It's better that way. Don't even try to agree or understand anymore. This is as far as he goes and as far as I go and it has less to do with him than my awareness his limits. He's shit out my ass, and my ass is out of here suddenly. These opinions do not consider the needs of the living. But do check out my Andy Griffith spoof posted in the Misc. thread "Blood Meridian for Women of Color." Comic relief on a theme of dead meat. If you have any other questions, just dig your answers out of there kindly. MStS.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	neurotoxin	4/9/2007
Mariette, So stop reading McCarthy if you find his work "unbelievable". You might find your remarks regarding his later work insightful, but from where I am sitting you sound like a boring old goat chewing over the same old cud. You have as much a right to post your idiotic and naive remarks as anyone, but perhaps since you are unable to digest what the man is doing now, and f**k yourself for the remarks regarding his child, you could take a long walk off a short pier and stop polluting these forums with your shallow observations and trite remarks. Good day ma'am.

How to "take" Sunset Limited, Dos	stephen brown	4/10/2007
(pause) And THAT'S how to take Sunset Limited, ladies and gentlemen.

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